Considering it says @stefofficiel I think it best to consult deaf people, they will be the ones best able to resolve this, do not consider them would paternalism.

It seems to me that it would be most appropriate for members of the deaf community to themselves come up with a sign for D* once Diaspora is well enough known that it moves into everyday discourse.

Problem is : members of the deaf community won't come to diaspora* unless we make it accessible to them.

I discussed that point with @stefofficiel. He explained me that deaf people don't read and think just like hearing do. Consequently, they don't easily understand the main feature of diaspora* : decentralization.

This concept is very oscure to them because LSF lacks signs to talk about computer science and informatics. Some words of expression that are very common to hearing users are complitely unknown to them.

Keep in mind that we are not talking about people that live right like us, just hearing less. We are talking about people that a huge part of the common human communication avoids them.

Furthermore, @stefofficiel does not make this proposal without reflection. I can assure you he knows deaf comunity pretty well ;)

This is why this proposal is very close to this one. We have to know how to explain diaspora* in sign language. But unless we have a sign to say "diaspora*" we cannot.

Augler: There is no one sign language. LSF isn't used worldwide. I feel like prescribing a sign worldwide is the wrong way to go about this.

@Asher : Obvious. Though, you say "Facebook" in French, you say "Facebook" in English, you say "Facebook" in German, you say "Facebook" in Spanish, you say "Facebook" in Swaili, you say "Facebook" in Japanese, you say "Facebook" in Russian, and so on....

The same way, you say "diaspora*" in French, you say "diaspora*" in English, you say "diaspora*" in German, you say "diaspora*" in Spanish, you say "diaspora*" in Swaili, you say "diaspora*" in Japanese, you say "diaspora*" in Russian, and so on....

A mark is a mark. I don't see why "diaspora*" could choose to be called "diaspora*" and couldn't choose how to be signed !

@augier This might be true written or spoken but it is not true signed. Facebook is signed differently by different communities.

You should know that each country uses its own sign language. French language signs is one of the most used language with English signs. There are also international sign language. International sign language is a common language, allowing the transcription of a word in sign language into another, more common names are almost entirely in international sign language. The world famous places or large brands are international sign language. For example, the Eiffel Tower or the place of the star ("Place de l'étoile") is signed in the same way through the world.

The international common words, such as "Facebook", "Twitter", "Coca-Cola", "Internet", "Google", and in particular the known websites, are signed in the same way everywhere in the world. The international sign language is primarily a dictionary of common words and simple, and a particular alphabet, leading to an understanding in any language.

The woman to my brother who is also deaf, is Indian. She speaks the language of English signs, but we understand almost perfectly, whereas I only speak the language of French signs. Sign language of a region does not necessarily correspond with the regional spoken language.

Understanding and communication is possible between two people quickly mastering of different sign languages​​. This is due to the close proximity of syntactic structures and the existence of very iconic structures.

Sign language has its philosophy.

It is usually very difficult to talk with deaf computer because there is almost no words related to technical computing. Believe me, from experience, explain the concept of Diaspora * a deaf is not an easy task. Explaining decentralization ... Already a large number of deaf ignores the architecture of the Internet and do not even know the existence of a server, even if they not very familiar with its function. Then explain the concept of Diaspora *, without a sign characterizing the social network is hell. There are no existing word defining the diaspora as the explanation of this word is already very complicated sign language.

Allow people attending deaf to distinguish Diaspora * in the explanations already venture to be able to make a breakthrough.

Without knowledge of Diaspora *, the deaf will not come from themselves. Even if they come on their own, without knowledge of the concept, very few will see none.

We differentiate ourselves from other social networks, and we need.

@Asher :

@augier This might be true written or spoken but it is not true signed. Facebook is signed differently by different communities.

I'm sorry, but this is false. Facebook has exactly the same sign language signs that French language and English signs that sign language Spanish for example.

But a number of the deaf do not know some words, my brother for example signed "FB" to say Facebook but learned that he had a sign on its own. Since it uses the common sign.

@stefofficiel Thank you for clarifying!
My school has a huge population of ASL students. I'll see if any interpreters have been in computer science classes and if they have any tips for communicating more technical topics.

Very good idea @Asher ! ( What's funny is that your nickname is pronounced like my city ! :-P )

You speak sign language ?

@Asher :

@augier This might be true written or spoken but it is not true signed. Facebook is signed differently by different communities.

I’m sorry, but this is false. Facebook has exactly the same sign language signs that French language and English signs that sign language Spanish for example.

But a number of the deaf do not know some words, my brother for example signed “FB” to say Facebook but learned that he had a sign on its own. Since it uses the common sign.

Furthermore, it might be true since almost no compagny translate their TM in sign language, leaving deaf people the task to do it.

I consider creating the sign to translate "diaspora*" as a step towards this largely ignored community.

Yes, this is also a problem. I think it is not the user to choose the communication work must be done by the team. Also I think we need to create a team of communications / marketing for D *

Also I think we need to create a team of communications / marketing for D *

There is already 'outreach'. There's a sub-group especially for that here in Loomio.

Ok, I did not know! Sorry!

Sorry, I do not understand enough English to know if you agree or not to leave this task to the deaf people :)

I think that would do it without consulting them are crazy and end descición is their rightful.

sorry about my english.

Oh !! I really want to work in a team of communications for D*, particularly in Spanish and Galician languages

@juansantiago

[ES] Por hecho, le expliqué que la comunidad sorda no puede elegir uno. De hecho, se sienten atraídos por la red social, primero tendrían un interés allí, en segundo lugar, no hay suficientes términos técnicos informáticos para explicar lo que D * y TI en general. Creo que no es el usuario para decidir el plazo, pero "la comunicación del equipo" para hacerlo. Es un poco como decir "no, no ponemos el nombre del producto en el sistema Braille, que será la persona ciega que hacer", me resulta igualmente ilógico !

[EN] By done, I explained that the deaf community can not choose one. Indeed, they are attracted to the social network, first they would have an interest there, secondly, there are not enough computer technical terms to explain what D * and IT in general. I think it is not the user to decide the term but "team communication" to do so. It's a bit like saying "no, we do not put the product name in Braille, it will be the blind person to do", I find it equally illogical !

PS : Thx google translate :-P

@stefofficiel

OH !! Braille is not a problem, it's just another way to write the same thing.

photos attached by example in Spanish

@stefofficiel How is D* D + * in sign ?

@juansantiago Braille was an example of a metaphor ...

Ok, I did not know! Sorry!

No need to apologise, @stefofficiel - I was just pointing this out in case you or anyone else wanted to get involved in that group.

I lack the perspective to know what's easy or useful for deaf people, but I like the original proposition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NSJkUJyq9Q&feature=youtu.be

And if it's alright with Stef, I'd like to upload it (or have it uploaded) to a Mediagoblin site. (decentralization, and all that jazz.)

@chris26 Okay, no problem for Mediagoblin ! Just, post the link here, and i update the principal post ;-)

Facebook sign :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTuaSavjWNA

https://goblinrefuge.com/mediagoblin/u/teslas_moustache/m/how-to-say-diaspora-in-sign-language/

I set the license as public domain. I can still change that, if it should be different.

I don't consider a part of a language should be different than public domain :p

The language, sure. But the performance? The person's likeness? I wasn't sure.

An illustration would be good, so that it could be put in a book. I'll see if I can work on this. I'm not so confident in this type of art, so I would encourage anyone else to make an attempt.

The language, sure. But the performance? The person’s likeness? I wasn’t sure.

NP ! @stefofficiel is already in public domain ! You can do whatever you want to his body ! \o/

@augier You fucking love my body right !

/posts/6a263d7042b501321d8600259069449e

Sign language has it's charme... I really liked reading this discussion. :)

(ran out of space....)

I'm inherently uncomfortable about telling the hearing-impaired community how they should sign something. I think it should be left up to them to come up with something themselves which works well for them. Also a sign is going to be useless for communication until everyone knows what it means/refers to. Better to let it develop organically among the communities of users of sign languages rather than attempt to impose anything. I appreciate this proposal has good intentions, but I fear it is likely to be received poorly (if at all) by hearing-impaired people.

Hm.. I think it is more of an answer to when people using the sign language are looking for a symbol. It's an offer. If there is another sign developing in that community, I'm all for embracing that instead of the current solution. But as far as I have read these comments, there is nothing so far, so an example of how to sign "diaspora" that people could refer to is not a bad thing. :)

@goob: Since this obviously isn't our actual decision, I think the proposal is about whether we should propose this to the ISL people (as a foundation?), so in the end no one will tell anyone how to sign diaspora, except for potentially ISL if they find it descriptive.

I do see your points though, that words should come from the community, not some authority. A possible solution to that might be to add a page, a text or an a FAQ-answer on the foundation site, proposing a possible way to sign "diaspora", and informing that other proposals are okay too and that we'd love to see them and that in the future we'd like to have a word in the ISL? :)

@ivangabrielmoren

I do see your points though, that words should come from the community, not some authority. A possible solution to that might be to add a page, a text or an a FAQ-answer on the foundation site, proposing a possible way to sign “diaspora”, and informing that other proposals are okay too and that we’d love to see them and that in the future we’d like to have a word in the ISL? :)

An approach like that might work but that is a very different proposal from 'Adopt StefOfficiel's sign as the official ISL sign for "Diaspora*"', which is why I've voted against the proposal as worded.

I think the proposal is about whether we should propose this to the ISL people

I don't think this is what the proposal about, because it says:

this should be adopted as the official International Sign for Diaspora*...

and

2) how a sign is entered into the ISL dictionary.

It's not, in my view, up to us to decide what sign will be adopted as the ISL sign for Diaspora*, nor to enter a sign into the ISL dictionary.

So I don't think this proposal is saying what you think it is saying, or what you think it should be saying.

If we agree that this should be adopted as the official International Sign for Diaspora*

- meaning an agreement that we currently think it should be adopted. It doesn't practically mean to decide whether it is going to or not :p But maybe the proposal didn't mean to say that, I don't know, I can't read minds.

That's the point. I don't think it's for us even to say 'we think it should be adopted'. Hence my vote.

It’s not, in my view, up to us to decide what sign will be adopted as the ISL sign for Diaspora*, nor to enter a sign into the ISL dictionary.

Why not ? Why could we choose the name of the software and cound't we choose the sign that corresponds to ?

I think it is terribly patronizing to say "Hey ! We can choose the name of our project for the hearing, bu you, impaired, up to you to decide !" It is making them really really being appart of the society and this is clearly to avoid this, that this proposition exists.

Furthermore, as @stefofficiel is the only one who is in contact whith deafs, shouldn't we trust him ?

@augier Any decision to marketing, should be tested with the target audience, Yes, of course I trust @stefofficiel

@juansantiago : as we don't have any target audiance for now, we just have to deal with it. I think that target audience will not come unless we show them we think about them. And that begins with adopting a sign, one way or another. The same way that you have to choose a name for your project before anyone uses it !

@augier

Yes, if we consider Diaspora in sign language is that we as a target audience for the deaf.

I disagree with you on the basics, in a serious, long-term project, the name, logo and other details of the project should be tested, otherwise it'll simplemete the project may fail because of an error on that.

It is not appropriate to decide these details from a crstal bubble .

Not talking about large investments em style marketing corporations, simply i,m think there is a world beyond our subjectivities.

Yes, it is true, usually they are the ones who choose the signs. Why them? Simply because they are the forgotten of society, ostracized. We choose a sign. If they like it will pass, if they choose another. But if you prefer to do like everyone else, continue to ignore the deaf, let them choose a sign for a social network which they know nothing and which they see no future interest be it for life private !