Hello @johncherry - any chance of a very quick update on the 2019 harvest - i.e. has the weather been good this year, when is harvest time and what are the timings for when we need to decide what happens next? Realise this is a very busy time of year.

thanks @johncherry very interesting to see! The wheat that did get a weed-free start looks like it's doing very well! How much wheat do coverage do you think there is on the non-weed free area?

Here's a photo of the heritage wheat that had glyphosate pre-drilling (on left) and the severely stunted heritage wheat on right that didn't get a weed free start. Took this last week, am currently away from home

Yes, thanks for the update @johncherry - I find it a bit amusing, that throughout the Our Field project, the weather often seems to have helped to enable and/or enforce what appears to be the groups preference of minimizing chemical inputs

Thank you John

thanks for the update, John

I'm sorry for the sustained radio silence from this end. Many thanks for giving us the freedom to do as we saw fit. As it turned out, we've done nothing. It was too dry and a bit late to put fertiliser on, so we didn't. Ditto, it was bit late to weed kill and the weeds seemed very small with the dry weather, so we skipped that. There's not much disease pressure, so no fungicides. The wheats are all growing away nicely, except the patch that had no Roundup, which is struggling frankly. Otherwise, all is well

John

Dear John and Steven
Thank you both for providing information on some options available to deal with the weeds. The outcome as usual seems to be in the hands of Nature and whether it rains - but not too much.

That's interesting @johncherry
Einbocks are popular with organic farmers. They have been criticised for being a bit rudimentary though that is also part of their appeal, but I understand they’ve evolved somewhat in the last few decades.
Yes, timing is everything, as always with farming. I know there is a desire to get on with it from farmers but they also tell me it is better to wait and find the best time to strike. If you can hold your nerve!
Cheers,
Steven

Thanks Steven

I quite forgot to say, Ollie our new manager, suggested going over the whole field with our 'einbock' type harrow to grub up a lot of the weeds and hopefully not pull up the wheat. He used to be on an organic farm and knows a bit about how to do these things. However the ground is a bit solid now, so harrow won't make much impression. If we get some wet and catch it as it dries we could give it a go

John

Thanks, @johncherry
While I, for one, am happy for the project to experiment with or without this or that input or method I would reiterate that this is something I’d feel best done under a strategic approach.
Where farmers regularly farm without using artificial inputs or using only very low levels of inputs then they do, in my experience, succeed more when they’ve other ways to help the crop to thrive, rather than abandoning the plants to whatever the fates may throw at them.
They might use animal manure, for instance, in place of artificial nitrogen and use of cultural methods such as hoes and harrows in place of chemical products for weed control.
Not sure how you all feel about this and how @johncherry would feel?
I think it would be helpful if people can think what is possible, now and longer term.
Cheers,
Steven

I had a chat with Richard yesterday. The wheats are looking ok, we've missed the early chance to give it much nitrogen, but it's still worth adding perhaps 70 to 90 kgs of urea which would double the output at harvest...ie spend £70/acre to get at least an extra £140 extra back from more wheat. We really ought to give it a broad-leaved weed spray at £12/acre as a forest of little weeds are appearing now.
The alternative is to do nothing (no fert no sprays) which will mean the weeds won't be so vigorous, but we won't get so much wheat, but we may be able to sell it to a miller/baker as chemical free, if not strictly speaking 'organic', which may well be worth more than the extra fertilised wheat. If that makes sense.
I have no strong feelings either way, I'm happy to do nothing, but I'm just nervous that it may go wrong and it's your money which you won't get a return on...
Time for a vote? I'm off on holiday on Wednesday till Easter, but if you want to do stuff, the team here can get on with it...

Dear Grahame
Thank you for asking for our comments. I accept the judgment of John and Richard on the way to deal with the weeds in the circumstances of this season. If they have a moment to explain the reasons it would be very much appreciated. Conservation farming is not risk free!!! Best Tony (Allan)

Yes also agree @grahamehunter @christinelewis1 we could take a vote on a long term approach for the rest of the year...and then quick fire decisions can be taken based on that direction.

Hi Grahame. I like your suggestion - at the very least I think it would be good to consider some way of making longer term strategic decisions. At the moment it does feel like we're just reacting to things as they crop up (no pun intended!). Could we consider issues that may arise over the year and vote on possible solutions. Of course there will still be a need to review and reconsider, or act on unforeseen circumstances, but at the moment it feels (to me) that decision making leans too far to the reactive, short-term end of things.

Dear Christine
I agree with your comment that taking a vote may not be an appropriate approach if the decision needs to be made quickly.
My position is that we learn with John and his team how to deal with this season's weeds. If he has time to explain their rationale it would be good. Best Tony Allan

Well, @abbyrose I was not suggesting we avoid those decisions: I really meant, and I see it is not what I wrote, that perhaps we could agree by vote in principal what our strategy is, and then if it is to use glyphosate or whatever, that we rely on John / Richard to determine the timing and quantities within the agree parameters whatever those are, and so not have a vote each time spray is used..it could becomes ideosyncratic and illogical if we sometimes vote "yes" to spray, and next time around "no", based on arbitrary things such as who turns up to vote on that occasion. So my suggestin is a vote on sprays etc, with an extra clause such as "- this decision is binding until the harvest of 2019." or "until the summer meeting".

I agree with Abby about the spirit of OurField being for collaborative decision making but note that holding a vote takes time which we may not have - so a very simple vote with a few days to respond that covers the decisions needed now may be the best approach. Is it simply - do we add selective weedkiller (non-glyphosate), do we add fertiliser, do we add selective weedkiller and fertiliser or do we leave the crop as it is with no addition.

I am not sure defaulting to the farmer's opinion is in the spirit of OurField! Can we have a vote and of course have John and Richard's advice as one of the options?

John's crop update

I know there is some background discussions regarding strategy. One aspect to consider, and looking at the accounts everyone has received, is that everyone pays a little for John as the farmer, and for Richard the agronomist; these are flat costs per member per month.
If both John and the Richard are of the opinion that within the Weston no-till-but-not-organic system the field should be sprayed, could it be proposed that an accepted strategy is to default to their advice?

Dear John
Very many thanks for the additional information. Farming is exquisitely complicated with too numerous risks to weigh.

The arrival of the assistant manager is big news. It would be good if you could introduce him. It must have been a big decision to add staff and I presume a reversal of the trend of decades with respect to on-farm employment.
.
Thank you also for highlighting the weed problem and for asking for comments. We look forward to information on costs. If we get a crop will it sell easily. We don't want a repeat of the first spelt crop? Best TonyA

Thanks for asking Tony. It is relatively simple to spray on the bacteria I think. Measuring and monitoring the results less so. Having rashly offered this, I'm now slightly dreading the work, but we've just taken on a brilliant assistant manager who will take a lot of work off me so I'll be getting fat and lazy quite soon.

However both he and Richard are of the opinion that if we don't spray the field with some selective weed-killer soon (not glyphosate, which would kill the wheat), then we likely won't have any crop to harvest except as a forage crop (ie turn the mess of plants into silage or graze it all off). There are a lot of broad-leaved and grass weeds there. We could take a punt and not fertilise it and hope that the wheats dominate the weeds, but it's quite a risk. It all depends on what the collective want. I'll get some prices for what this would cost and likely returns to give you all a better idea of what's at stake. Sorry not to be more bullish about this
John

Many thanks John
I like the idea that the OurField project will figure in Groundswell 2019.
On the use of fertilser I would need to know what experiments would be feasible. Do you have time to do anything complicated. Also if you could do the complicated things needed for the application would you have the capacity to do any monitoring and weighing of separate outputs. Best TonyA

Thanks for the update John - what is the timescale on this so that we can plan a vote from members and have time for debate and sharing views.

With apologies for lack of updates, but it has been quiet on the farm, except that we've just had a beautiful dry and warm February and have used the opportunity to spread a bit of Urea fertiliser on most of our crops. But not #ourfield.

Which leads to the next question we need to ask the collective: what fertiliser (if any) do you want to use on these wheats that we have growing. There are a few companies selling magic potions containing free-living nitrogen fixing bacteria etc which allegedly fix a decent amount of N. These tend to be ok to use in organic systems, but the problem is that the jury is out as to whether they work or not.

Or we can put a bit of urea on. Or do nothing.

We have moved the Groundswell demo site this year to the field between ourfield and Lannock farmyard, so we could probably persuade one or other of the snake-oil guys to give us some potion to trial...as long as the collective are happy to have delegates padding about the field. We'd keep it contained and I don't think that many people will move that far, but it may be an idea worth exploring.

What do people think?

Thanks John and Oliver. I am very happy to see the green covering of "weeds" on the unsprayed patch, cover over winter means healthier soil and less run off and a step in the right direction. Its going to take time for any type of natural balance, so I expect the weeds won't be as diverse as they could be but happy to see how it goes. Remember the heritage varieties should grow taller, and won't suit too much nitrogen in the soil. The experiment area is the most interesting part of the field!

Thanks Oliver for annotating the map, a skill that I've yet to pick up.
Strictly speaking, the Wakelyns Population (coloured green on map) comes down to just below the bridleway line that divides the field. Approx 6.2 hectares.
The next section (coloured red) is the Miller's Choice and weed crop (approx. 0.6 hectare) the next (grey) section is clean Miller's Choice, about 1hectare and the rest in blue is Crusoe

Dear Oliver

Thank you very much indeed for taking time to provide estimates of the areas devoted to the different varieties.

And to the part of the field not treated with glyphosate.

The information helps us a lot.

Best. TonyA

I've annotated an aerial image of the field with where the different wheats are. I'm not quite sure about the areas of each, but as I understand it the Millers choice is a smaller area than the others - remember part of it has also been left unsprayed with glyphosate.

Dear Oliver,
Thank you warmly for taking the initiative to visit the Field. It was very important that John found the time to provide the essential detail, the spade and of course the humour. Your successful visit gives us confidence that we can be updated on progress and especially on who wins the war with the weeds!! I hope you can make other visits. The method looks as if it could be done with a drone, But I prefer the John and Oliver show.
Best TonyA

Thanks for sharing this

Update on the crop

I went to see the field today and John kindly spent some time talking me through what's been happening.
Have a watch of this video, to get an idea of what the field looks like currently.

Yes the seed idea is a sound one I reckon. Seed royalties are due to breeders of varieties so with John Letts’ heritage population it’s he who would be due any recompense.
The idea of a feed mix for @johnch

Update from Hodmedod's

I spoke to Josiah today about potentially purchasing the 2018 crop. He'd be interested in having us produce a crop of lentils and also if we were to grow heritage wheat, he'd happily stock it . There are a few things that need sorting out, but potentially if we wanted to grow lentils this year, we'd have a buyer in Hodmedod's. See message below:

"Yes, we'd very much be interested in a guest producer flour - I can't promise huge sales (we only sell a few tonnes of Wakelyns flour a year - including some slightly larger baker orders).

We haven't yet harvested all our lentils and I need to talk to all the producers this year to see how much they want to grow next year, but if you're keen I'd want to visit and have a fairly detailed conversation about their production and harvest to to be sure you really did want to go for it (they're not without risk...). As an aside we need to do all we can to maintain a good return to farm for the lentils and in order to do that we're managing scarcity in order to ensure demand always slightly exceeds supply. With that in mind I need to map areas quite carefully and ensure that we initially expand production with our existing farmers - that should all be sorted out by early/mid September.

Best wishes,

Josiah"

In reply to Grahame I agree that it is the excessive use of glysophate that is the problem.

Soil not soul. Typing on a mobile.

Yes I think you’re right that much of the heated conversation around glyphosate is human health so where is sprayed on a food crop and it’s effects on us thereafter.
I have concerns though where glyphosate is proven, and there is such research, to be negative in some biotic relationships.
Glyphosate herbicide affects belowground interactions between earthworms and symbiotic mycorrhizal fungi in a model ecosystem
https://www.academia.edu/16539209/Glyphosate_herbicide_affects_belowground_interactions_between_earthworms_and_symbiotic_mycorrhizal_fungi_in_a_model_ecosystem

That is not to say it’s completely malign but not is it entirely benign.

Another element I have concern over is the use of artificial fertiliser. It too is not benign in its effects on the soul and soul borne organisms and the manufacture of it is hugely intensive.
This must be balanced with use of cultivation’s but a system approach mindful of all impacts is sensible and I believe organic is a very good example of such.
But I also think the Weston farms approach is mindful. And I know that moving to organic, even in practice rather than full certification, is a very big change and a steep learning curve.

glyphosate

There is of course a difference between using a chemical to terminate a cover crop (which I think would be the de facto method on ourField) and spraying a weed killing chemical onto the crop itself (sometimes even as late as harvest, to terminate co resident weeds, and to make harvesting easier,) which is never done at Weston.
I think a lot of the steam about glyphosates in the food chain comes from the crop itself being sprayed; or do people have other information?

Currently waiting to hear back from Hodmedod's guys.

very true, we talk allot at the bakery about how if we knew and trusted the farmer had grown in an organic way then organic certification could be glossed over. It's the farm practices over several years and the direct relationship with the farmer that's important. This links in with the general need to reconnect with how our food is produced and know the person producing it. For example one grain we mill is a mix of varieties called Lys Brun from Duchess Farms grown by Oscar, not certified organic but we trust he hasn't sprayed it at any point because Ben is friends with him and trusts how he's grown that crop. Would John Cherry be interested in trying OurField crops without non-organic inputs and find another way to terminate the cover crop?

I am very keen to grow heritage wheats but as Rosy and Grahame point out having a buyer beforehand or a plan for selling it is super important. It will be good to chat to Hodmedod's as they process and sell both organic and non-organic grains as far as I know...they could be a potential partner/buyer. I also know that certain smaller bakeries who want to use heritage grains are working with farmers on conventional farms to grow the heritage grains using organic methods, but of course it is not certified organic. So potentially there is demand for this as well.

Rosy thank you for that..the best would be to send one box with 6 x 1.5Kg bags, so a total of 9Kg.. We have white and wholemeal. Do you think 3 of each or some different ratio? I am not at Weston now, but I think I can arrange this remotely!

Ideally we would wan to learn more about the potential of the flour we have (Spelt) , and then to sound out any ideas you can contribute on what we might do with 4 more tonnes of the stuff, still safe in an atmosphere controlled environment.