CLOSED - MEMBERSHIPS DECISIONS MEGA AP
AP CLOSED - summary:
The plan for budget etc: Keep the previous seperated budget approach but include a basic contribution to more than the bare minimum (site hire and insurance). Simple three bands of costs with different amounts of dream (welfare, art, camp funding, decor) contributions.
See summary of budget here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TYYDExhD5l6tol7tgZvToNKW1SBBQ7G0/edit#gid=765478303
I have reduced the buffer to keep costs at around the level mentioned in the thread (base = £140).
NOTE: Last year the catering kitchen was an extra £500 - it would be good to know if that was included in the site hire as if not we will have to put up the cost a bit, or use up basically the entire buffer.
Meals came up in this convo - this will be kept seperate as not everyone will want to participate. Suggestion of going with 25 as minimum pp contribution to the kitchen (single meal / day), although if someone wants to take this on and review more closely that may not be a bad thing - food costs seem to keep rising... (!)
Low-cost: no comments on this topic beyond keeping range of membership costs / no one taking this on so we will stick with the three tiers above.
Number: stick with 130 (same as last year) (I was wrong in original post, was 130 last year!)
Will push this over to the trello card now for logistics, thanks all for input.
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Hello all - this is a post about decisions relating to membership! Now that we have committed to Marthrown it is time to get down to business with membership stuff! The decisions were delayed to consider a possible alternative site.
This post originally included reference to decisions about location and considered the questions below in the context of two possible sites - upon reflection this was rather ahead of itself - but now hopefully this is timely!
Questions for community decision-making about process below, and logistics / membership sales process on this trello card - you help is needed so please get stuck in! :) https://trello.com/c/c4zXllsT/154-membership-sales-set-up-and-delivery).
BIG QUESTIONS:
· Cost of membership
· Separate dreams (art grants) budget pot or all in one price
· Are all memberships the same cost
· Number of memberships
Relevant info/history for each point:
· Cost of membership: last year the base cost was £82 to cover actual essentials (site hire, insurance, legalities) – this will be similar if staying in place. In addition to this ‘base’ cost, members could choose to contribute as much as they were able into a second pot which covered all “non-essentials” aka 'dreams' (welfare, décor, art grants). Non-essential just means the event could not technically / legally run without these things - I'm sure all would agree that welfare is essential, really, and most would feel that way about the art etc too!
· Separate pots or all one budget: as above, the previous budget was separated.
· All the same cost: last year all base memberships were the same
· Number: last year we had 130 adult memberships.
AP itself:
Cost of membership and separate base/arts budgets: The two topics must be taken together as the base cost of membership isn’t negotiable as it is covering the expenses of the event. So, the real question is whether it’s all one membership/ticket cost or the base costs and art grants are kept separate. I would propose keeping separate base and arts budgets as it permits flexible budgets to meet variable finances - but changing the input structure. How about: At point of sale each member contributes the base cost + amount of their choosing, starting with a minimum arts/welfare etc donation of perhaps £35 (5/day)? Individuals with the ability to put in more can then contribute more, but it allows us to set a base budget for everything beyond pure site hire and legals.
Also: The process was also not entirely clear and more info at the point of sale would be good (perhaps a very simple flow chart?). But perhaps there is a better way to do it, or we just want to try something new?
I'm not sure what site hire works out to this year so can't put out a final cost but based on the membership price last year this would put the minimum cost at £117 for the one week event. I would assume costs have gone up slightly with the site etc as everything seems to cost more this year - so take that number with a pinch of salt!
Are all memberships the same cost? This came up last year – do we arrange some low-income memberships? The separate base and arts budget strategy goes a long way to resolving this as this automatically allows self-selecting of costs up to a point - that said, I know it is still a significant cost especially for those on very low / no income. The membership base could potentially support a small number of ultra-low cost memberships – but this would need someone to organise and oversee this process. So, my suggestion here is that we proceed with the budgets as suggested above, keeping the base cost relatively low – unless someone steps in here with ideas and willingness to take responsibility for managing the process.
Membership numbers: This was more interesting when we may have been moving site!! I think 130 was about the most that Marthrown could handle - and we wouldn't be allowed to go much above that anyway due to their restrictions. So, I suggest we stick with it.
Please add your thoughts! As this has already been up for a hot second the deadline will be slightly shorter. I will close the AP on Friday 3rd November!
Rachel Fri 27 Oct 2023 6:33PM
Results were close but we have concluded on dates for CB24. Monday April 22nd to Monday April 29th.
Thanks to Isa’s kind offer to call Marthrown to book and Sam’s coordinating with them initially, we are now booked/deposit paid!
Sandy Ryalls Tue 31 Oct 2023 9:16AM
I don't feel like it's unreasonable to add some costs above and beyond the bare minimum for membership especially if it's recognised that they're effectively necessary if not technically.
I'm thinking in terms of other things that have banded costs if we're worried about cost becoming a barrier.
I'd like to see a benchmark cost per person if we're not just covering absolute essentials but also the standard of elective things the group has become used to - that way it's easier to make a judgment about how much is an appropriate contribution.
With regards timing and splitting membership dues - the group is already thinking in terms of it being membership rather than site access - to me that means that its really reasonable to, as a default position, require full membership payment well in advance of the event. As with the idea of banded costs above, that doesn't mean that exceptions allowances can't be made if that genuinely becomes a barrier.
Emily H Tue 31 Oct 2023 6:53PM
@Sandy Ryalls useful thoughts, thank you! yes the idea of splitting dues for those for whom the full would be a barrier is a good idea, could be a compromise solution that doesn't add quite as much workload but still helps make it more accessible
back of napkin budget --- £12600 for site hire + c. £250 for insurance + c. £100 for first aid kit and membership purchase platform fees + 10% buffer for emergencies = £14245
(when first posted this final cost had not been clarified - booked now so it is clear. buffer could be lower, we did 10% in the past but didn't need it - need to check but we could consider waivering that this year to keep costs a little bit lower given that we have some carryover from last year - bearing in mind that we do need to retain some carryover for emergencies + putting down a deposit for the next year)
14245/140 = £101.75pp for site hire and insurance
if we added on say £35 pp as minimum contrib towards welfare, art etc that has us at £137 pp (rounded up) as lowest band, could then provide optional increases ranging up to i.e. 150, 180, 210, 250? @Sam Lee we've talked about this a bit, do you think that would be enough?
that would give us a minimum budget of £4900 for welfare and arts which is more than we've had in the past - I think we had c.£2000 in that budget for both of the past events (although the first one was 40 fewer people!) - but we also want to a) increase the volume of art considerably b) potentially support acquiring light infrastructure for the community to use in following years as we move on to sites with less infrastructure (which will have lower hire cost but fewer facilities)
for comparison, tickets to nest (largest uk burn and also 7 days long) were around this cost range for a standard ticket, with the standard price at £140 and voluntary donations up to £250. Microburn (smiliar size to CB) was £82 this year - but only runs for 4 days so actually fairly comparable on price too.
We're a bit stuck as the site costs have gone up considerably this year.... another reason to move on next year!
Sam Lee Tue 31 Oct 2023 8:43PM
I think keep 10% but ditch processing costs.
130ppl
The 'Reception Creatures' (name under review) can cover two payment people. The idea of the creatures is that they give specific information out and sort everyone into the proper categories.
I think we should add on guesstimated kitchen cost at this point as well. Was it £21?
I think two brackets of £35 and £55, that'll give us plenty of dream money.
Jakub Hajko Wed 1 Nov 2023 12:03PM
@Sam Lee I'm with you on this. 130ppl, separate membership & dream pots, 2 dream pots (for simplicity), multi-payment option, but I'd probably separate kitchen membership from all encompassing price. I can imagine some van dwellers cooking their own meals (and possibly other people too).
@Emily H your proposals look good IMO (~£137, several bands, etc)
Emily H Thu 2 Nov 2023 8:07AM
@Jakub Hajko @Sam Lee thanks both sounds good overall.
kitchen agreed would keep seperate. last year we had someone super on it who could put that call out with original membership purchase. we can make a call out to see if anyone is keep to take that on? or just guess and tack it on? do we think 21 will still cover it with inflation? may need to be 25, even 27... :(
130 humans - i'm happy with that as i do think some camping got a bit squished last year but that will push up costs a little bit again, no time to calculate this morning but worth noting that the estimates above were based on 140!
Rachel Thu 2 Nov 2023 10:52PM
Thank you all for all your thoughts and calculations. Really useful.
Good point on possible need to scale up kitchen costs for inflation, Emily. I thought the costs for one meal a day (amazingly delicious meals no less) were really cheap to begin with last year. Same for the overall membership fee. personally I felt the costs were quite cheap last year for a week of camping given the luxe facilities Marthrown has, and 137 is roughly 20 per day which is not bad at all.
Really appreciate all the thought you’ve put into this AP Emily, and I think it all sounds reasonable.
Rachel · Wed 25 Oct 2023 12:01PM
Update TLDR - We will continue at Marthrown next year, need community input on dates.
Vote in the Google poll before this Friday midday!
We want to secure our spot and need to pay a deposit for this. There is a bit of urgency as the site will be on TV next week and they anticipate bookings interest after this so may not be able to hold dates for us. They are wanting a deposit by the end of this week, so there is not time for a full AP and we will conclude this poll on Friday (27th Oct) at midday.
The date range that they have available in the realm of dates we are wanting is from Monday April 22nd until Thursday May 2nd (11 day range).
- We had originally discussed the event going from the 29th to 7th of May, but the site didn't have these dates. Thus we had provisionally asked for 22nd to the 30th to be held for us.
Please choose your preferred and available date ranges in poll below.
(Some considerations that have been mentioned - timing of Beltane (30th/1st) and full moon (22nd -24th))
https://forms.gle/rGVMNGPiebMb8CkbA