CLOSED - MEMBERSHIPS DECISIONS MEGA AP
AP CLOSED - summary:
The plan for budget etc: Keep the previous seperated budget approach but include a basic contribution to more than the bare minimum (site hire and insurance). Simple three bands of costs with different amounts of dream (welfare, art, camp funding, decor) contributions.
See summary of budget here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TYYDExhD5l6tol7tgZvToNKW1SBBQ7G0/edit#gid=765478303
I have reduced the buffer to keep costs at around the level mentioned in the thread (base = £140).
NOTE: Last year the catering kitchen was an extra £500 - it would be good to know if that was included in the site hire as if not we will have to put up the cost a bit, or use up basically the entire buffer.
Meals came up in this convo - this will be kept seperate as not everyone will want to participate. Suggestion of going with 25 as minimum pp contribution to the kitchen (single meal / day), although if someone wants to take this on and review more closely that may not be a bad thing - food costs seem to keep rising... (!)
Low-cost: no comments on this topic beyond keeping range of membership costs / no one taking this on so we will stick with the three tiers above.
Number: stick with 130 (same as last year) (I was wrong in original post, was 130 last year!)
Will push this over to the trello card now for logistics, thanks all for input.
_________________
Hello all - this is a post about decisions relating to membership! Now that we have committed to Marthrown it is time to get down to business with membership stuff! The decisions were delayed to consider a possible alternative site.
This post originally included reference to decisions about location and considered the questions below in the context of two possible sites - upon reflection this was rather ahead of itself - but now hopefully this is timely!
Questions for community decision-making about process below, and logistics / membership sales process on this trello card - you help is needed so please get stuck in! :) https://trello.com/c/c4zXllsT/154-membership-sales-set-up-and-delivery).
BIG QUESTIONS:
· Cost of membership
· Separate dreams (art grants) budget pot or all in one price
· Are all memberships the same cost
· Number of memberships
Relevant info/history for each point:
· Cost of membership: last year the base cost was £82 to cover actual essentials (site hire, insurance, legalities) – this will be similar if staying in place. In addition to this ‘base’ cost, members could choose to contribute as much as they were able into a second pot which covered all “non-essentials” aka 'dreams' (welfare, décor, art grants). Non-essential just means the event could not technically / legally run without these things - I'm sure all would agree that welfare is essential, really, and most would feel that way about the art etc too!
· Separate pots or all one budget: as above, the previous budget was separated.
· All the same cost: last year all base memberships were the same
· Number: last year we had 130 adult memberships.
AP itself:
Cost of membership and separate base/arts budgets: The two topics must be taken together as the base cost of membership isn’t negotiable as it is covering the expenses of the event. So, the real question is whether it’s all one membership/ticket cost or the base costs and art grants are kept separate. I would propose keeping separate base and arts budgets as it permits flexible budgets to meet variable finances - but changing the input structure. How about: At point of sale each member contributes the base cost + amount of their choosing, starting with a minimum arts/welfare etc donation of perhaps £35 (5/day)? Individuals with the ability to put in more can then contribute more, but it allows us to set a base budget for everything beyond pure site hire and legals.
Also: The process was also not entirely clear and more info at the point of sale would be good (perhaps a very simple flow chart?). But perhaps there is a better way to do it, or we just want to try something new?
I'm not sure what site hire works out to this year so can't put out a final cost but based on the membership price last year this would put the minimum cost at £117 for the one week event. I would assume costs have gone up slightly with the site etc as everything seems to cost more this year - so take that number with a pinch of salt!
Are all memberships the same cost? This came up last year – do we arrange some low-income memberships? The separate base and arts budget strategy goes a long way to resolving this as this automatically allows self-selecting of costs up to a point - that said, I know it is still a significant cost especially for those on very low / no income. The membership base could potentially support a small number of ultra-low cost memberships – but this would need someone to organise and oversee this process. So, my suggestion here is that we proceed with the budgets as suggested above, keeping the base cost relatively low – unless someone steps in here with ideas and willingness to take responsibility for managing the process.
Membership numbers: This was more interesting when we may have been moving site!! I think 130 was about the most that Marthrown could handle - and we wouldn't be allowed to go much above that anyway due to their restrictions. So, I suggest we stick with it.
Please add your thoughts! As this has already been up for a hot second the deadline will be slightly shorter. I will close the AP on Friday 3rd November!
fox of light Sat 7 Oct 2023 4:53PM
@Rachel I think that the Nov 1 "deadline" could definitely stand to be pushed a month or two forward. Why did we decide in the first place that a membership sale needs to happen six(!) months in advance of the event?
Rachel Sat 7 Oct 2023 4:58PM
@Daniel Klein I agree and don’t know why, but I don’t think it was an official decision. I just think it was mentioned in the last meeting and then I put it in notes.
Emily H Sun 8 Oct 2023 9:50AM
@Rachel agreed, decisions on site exploration are key and I think I jumped the gun somewhat here with some of these questions tbh!
couldnt agree more that inclusive discussion is key - and it will take more time, 1st of nov is not going to happen. even if we knew which site it would be it would be tight.
that said we can't take too long for a few reasons. for one we can't keep marthrown waiting too much longer and kind of at any point they can press us for deposit / confirmation (plus it's just not polite to leave it too long)
other factors to consider - setting up the membership sales is a big task and involves multiple additional logistics questions (big decisions as in post here plus a series of logistics questions - i've laid out the ones I could think of on the trello card) -- so I thnk we shouldn't aim too late as we'll inevitably take longer than planned.
other factors we have previously considered with membership sales - in the last two years we aimed both times to release in early november but actually released in early december / late nov (classic). The concept (i think) was partially to avoid the Christmas period as much as possible as everyone runs out of money, and also with the community being so new wanting to engage people early to get more co-creators involved. i do think it's nice for (hopefully) big art projects to have a relatively long run-up time, plus we ran the dreams process the last two years which required membership sales to be more or less complete before allocating budgets to projects.
Now there is more of a community that isn't as essential, and we don't sell out mega fast so if we can announce official dates and approximate location then maybe we can let membership sales wait - although we'll need to have a think about the dreams process (art and co funding allocations) if we leave it too late imo
TLDR 1st dec sounds v reasonable and more realistic
Rachel Mon 9 Oct 2023 8:26AM
@Emily H thanks for explaining that, Emily. Makes a lot of sense :)
Rachel Mon 9 Oct 2023 8:32AM
Update: Meeting date set for 16th October at 8:30pm. Will post a link once we’ve got one set.
fox of light Wed 11 Oct 2023 10:35AM
@Rachel Nowhere is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: CB'24 advisory meeting
Time: Oct 16, 2023 08:30 PM London
Join Zoom Meeting
https://us06web.zoom.us/j/88974978557?pwd=PROjJOlPNwNWwMrqvclGkftG7nm8qP.1
Meeting ID: 889 7497 8557
Passcode: 903511
Rachel Wed 11 Oct 2023 10:37AM
@Daniel Klein thanks fox! Had meant to post the link and forgot to do so. Perhaps I’ll make a Facebook event in the Celtic Burn group for more visibility.
Sam Lee Wed 11 Oct 2023 1:21PM
Ideas I've been having.
What about a pre burn greeters team... A little cozy virtual den that you enter, have your fortune told and leave with your membership, questions answered and wallet and soul lighter.
Paying for membership. What about allowing people to pay a small deposit now to get your name on the list, then the remainder when they can. We kinda did this 1st year with two installments, worked okay.
Things are easier when you're indoctrinated (by our greeters) at the start and know how to circle back to find fun work/ dreams to do.
Can just pay full wack if you can afford it.
Want to think of the burn as an investment.
£20 average pot two donation for 7days is WAY too low.
How to help people not just buy a ticket then disappear untill a week before (sometimes me at other burns)?
Fun online meetings and communal in-person meetings are ace for this
Emily H Tue 24 Oct 2023 8:26PM
@Sam Lee took your idea about minimum arts pot donation - what do you think?
i like the pre burn greeter team if we can get ppl to do it ;]
i don't like the deposit idea but mainly because i feel like we did this in the first year and it was an absolute nightmare chasing up the payments! tricky as it is nice to give people the option of spreading it out.... but ultimately caused a fair bit of chaos, no? is there maybe some better system to do that?
much agreed on the fun online meetings and in-person meetings where an option. also am a fan of adele's 'burning mandatory' meeting at the start to get that ball ROLLING. if we want to hit the aim of really getting camps established and continuing to grow an active community so that we can go a bit more rogue the following year then getting people mega involved from membership purchase (or even before!) through to event and beyond is going to be key
Rachel · Sat 7 Oct 2023 4:25PM
Thanks Emily for starting this!
These are all really important questions. Some things like membership cost and number of members will really depend on what site we use so I think your question of when we give the site exploration and decision until is key.
There is a site visit to the Knockengorrach site happening tomorrow afternoon to gather information. @Sam Lee has suggested (on telegram) a meeting to discuss the pros/cons of sites after this site visit and there is a poll for this on telegram with dates during the week of the 16th.
https://t.me/c/1570315314/1092/3500
This meeting wouldn’t be for making the decision of a new site but for having space to discuss the options. If there are people not on telegram who want to vote on meeting date so that they can be present for discussion please vote on this doodle:
https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/elpRW1Je
Personally it feels quite important that we strive for awareness of the meeting and the information on sites in the highest possible percentage of those invested in Celtic burn. With that in mind I could see ruling out Knockengorrach for this year by the week of the 16th (perhaps in that meeting) if there were quite clear reasons that it would be too difficult to go forward with (or would require more time).
I’m conscious that we’re now into October and at the last meeting November 1st was mentioned as the latest membership sales date. Was there a specific reason for that date
Unless the Knockengorrach site is clearly not suitable, I think 3 weeks is probably not realistic for the time it will take to to have inclusive discussion of and decision on whether to move to a new site (such that we don’t end up with a large number of those who care about Celtic burn feeling disenfranchised) and then negotiation with the new site in time for membership sales if we went with them.
Perhaps if we could push for December 1st for example, that might give enough time?
What do others think?