Hylo's Collaborative Technology Alliance discussion

actually I was just typing a thank you here to Mikey for holding and helping to develop the Open App vision for a long time. :) I"m definitely interested in any perspective(s) on Enspiral's involvement.

I think many people in enspiral are supportive of open-app concepts but they're not active as such. Enspiral is a shifting sand. My working hypothesis is that hooking up holodex and valnet and demonstrating our 'mad-science' technical concepts will shift things, maybe even into active support.

More context is that my day job is now as a javascript teacher at devacademy. Let's just say that @ahdinosaur and I have significant influence on many new developers, some of which end up joining enspiral, at a formative time in their careers ;)

@simontegg awesome and awesomer.

If we can see valnet people and groups in holodex, it will turn a lot of heads. Certainly among valnet users who (maybe somewhat like Enspiral) don't quite understand why we are wasting our time with that valueflows stuff), probably also in Hylo where holodex has been mentioned.

picking up on this... having just run https://2017.open.coop/ with @josefdaviescoates and mentioned CTA and the "seal" idea to hundreds of people... I'm keen to see if we can re-kindle the CTA. I too am wondering where is best to focus the conversation...? I've asked the same of the Hylo group... we clearly need one place to discuss this, other wise we'll never get there! any ideas on where that is / should be?

@olisb - thanks for reviving this conversation. Might be useful to think about why the original CTA ran out of energy and what became of the various threads that seemed to want to go somewhere.

My personal energies went to the https://valueflo.ws/ project and various collaborations with real-world collaborative organizations like http://www.mutualaidnetwork.org/ , https://freedomcoop.eu/ , http://gopacifia.org/ , and http://www.sensorica.co/ , who look like they might be converging in several ways. It's always been more about the real-world networks than the software for me, although software is important to all of those organizations, too.

New here, kia ora koutou.

Might be useful to think about why the original CTA ran out of energy

I was really excited by the CTA, it seemed it could be the web collaboration standards incubator I'd been banging on about for years. Sadly, it came into being at just the wrong time for me. When it began, I was diving into a deep depression crash that I'm only just coming out of. By the time I got back around to it, it seemed to have gone dark.

It's always been more about the real-world networks than the software for me

Worth noting that one reason for agreeing on standards, and avoiding reinvention of software wheels, is to reduce the amount of people's time being wasted on well-intentioned but dead end software dev work, so it can be redeployed into other things, esp. offline things ;)
EDIT: typo fixes, minor punctuation fixes

I think actually something did come out of CTA: Connor Turland made a bunch of improvements to Hylo. But that's pretty limited compared to the original announcements and why a lot of people got excited.

This collectively edited CTA document is still available: Survey of Canonical tool functions . It can be boiled down and updated somewhat, somewhere-- but I think it's a generally valuable effort to develop some collective intelligence.

I think that hackpad's being discontinued at some point, but I have at least one personal copy of that doc.

This is why I keep banging on about self-hosting free code server tools. Using proprietary web freeware (eg HackPad.com) is quick and easy, but you don't control whether links to them will keep working long term, whether or not they can be archived properly etc. Although admittedly this is less of a concern for ephemeral conversations that can be minuted elsewhere if needed.

Seems to me like the first thing the CTA needed to do was come up with a list of collaboration tools needed for the operations of the CTA itself, eat their own dogfood (use CTA members' own projects) as possible, and set up any missing components using existing free code packages like Etherpad, or even HackPad itself (it's code was liberated in 2014).

For posterity, I have made copies of Survey of Canonical tool functions and the Reduce duplicate effort on lower level fundamentals hackpad doc linked in it, on the wiki of the P2P Foundation.

Have folks here investigated into the Digital Life Collective? seems to have some similar potential, potentially. I've met Phillip Sheldrake once, and Christina Bowens a couple times (two primary catalysts of that initiative), and got generally good feels--high levels of competency and fairly neutral framing IMO. They're about 25% or more through a 16K membership campaign, trying to bring on 150 members.