Collaboration: NGI grant proposal

Right now we are in the process of shaping the next phase of development for GoalPost. For this grant, we’d love to explore how integrating with PLANET/Murmurations and Kendraio could make our proposal even stronger and benefit us all. A few ideas that come to mind:

• integration of Murmurations and GoalPost might allow groups to collaborate more easily and effectively with each other

• integration of Kendraio and GoalPost might enable end users to tailor their own digital spaces and easily connect with their data sources

On another topic, our group wants to be intentional when we begin a new collaboration. The Seed COC team working on GoalPost is me, Robert, and Björn & Vanessa Michael. We decided to write a relational invitation for when we are beginning a collaboration. Our group is focused on caring relationships first, after all, and technology second, in support of those relationships. Please have a look at our invitation when you have time, and we welcome your reflections and feedback. You're welcome to comment here or in the document.

We're excited about the possibilities and look forward to hearing from you!

As promised, @Daniel Harris @Oli SB, I am posting a link to our open source GoalPost GitHub repository, which we just made public. It represents the code for our first prototype software, which is currently packaged as an app as we discussed. More information about the architecture of the prototype is discussed in the ReadMe. The ReadMe also provides instructions for creating your own instance of the app, and the configurations required for integrating with your own infrastructure.

Here is the link to a demo version of the app, populated with fully AI-generated test data established for a set of conceptual communities, people, goals, resources, core values and care points and relevant relationships. Note that we leveraged an AI assistant to do this that has been trained in relational and non-extractive thinking and intelligence,, which is aligned with our Community of Care core values and principles. However, none of the data represents real situations, communities or people, and consequently any of the contact information is purely made up. In this case, we wanted and used focused hallucinations!

This demo app is hosted in the AWS Europe region to reach the widest range of audiences. You can login to the app to explore its features and the test data in context, using any of the credentials provided here. However, since this is our demo app, we’re asking that you don’t change any passwords. Feel free however to create new nodes to get a feel for the UX while exploring the app.

Also, we have made available a GraphQL endpoint for the demo app to enable exploring application of Kendra io capabilities to facilitate a user-defined UX. Instructions for access are provided here. Note that an access key is required for the endpoint, and that’s fully described in the documentation. Since GraphQL is self-describing, you are able to explore the full graph schema.

We look forward for collaborating further and exploring integration with Murmurations and Kendra io, and any feedback that the Open Group may provide on our initial GoalPost prototype.🙂

Thanks @RobertD for the GraphQL endpoint. We'll take a look shortly. cc @Luke Stanley @Halima McCarthy @PlumSH

@RobertD thanks a lot for this - really useful :)

Hello @Oli SB @Jennifer Damashek @RobertD , looking over the application form it does seem like it is written for one participant. We have looked over the FAQ and it is not clear. We will send an email to NLnet and cc you all. We will ask if more than one person can apply for a single application. We do note that the maximum funding is 50K EUR. However, the application page does say "We are seeking project proposals between 5.000 and 50.000 euro's — with the possibility to scale them up signficantly if there is proven potential." So, the question is do we apply together or separately for the Murmurations project? 50K EUR is not a lot of cash when spread over multiple partners. This is pretty hard to figure out.

@Daniel Harris Hi Daniel, thank you for raising these important questions. To be honest, we weren’t sure how collaborating on the grant would work. We are gaining clarity this week and next on exactly what we want to accomplish in the second phase of development of GoalPost, and that was going to be the main focus of the grant application for us.

The first phase of development cost us less than $10K USD, and we funded it ourselves. We are thinking we will need around $40K for the next phase. We are using the ShapeUp approach to developing GoalPost, which means we have specific outcomes for each six week cycle, and we want a whole, complete, working product to be the outcome. For the first phase, we shaped the project so that we would have something truly useful for our little communities, something that would move us toward our long-term vision but was completely feasible with the time and money we allocated. We were successful in this!

So back to our collaboration--we’ve also been sitting with this tension — how to approach the grant application so that all the projects are benefiting while recognizing that these grant frameworks often encourage fragmentation.

Like I said, our current thinking is that this application will primarily focus on Phase 2 development of GoalPost: building out core functionalities, security layers, and a stronger relational interface. That said, interoperability with aligned tools like Kendraio and Murmurations is a vital part of our vision.

Perhaps the strongest approach could be:

• GoalPost applies for its second-phase development, explicitly naming planned interoperability work with Kendraio and Murmurations as key milestones.

• Kendraio and Murmurations could either apply separately for complementary development, citing interoperability with GoalPost and PLANET, or — if NLnet’s structure allows — join as formal collaborators or subcontractors in the same proposal.

Would it be helpful for you to understand more about what we are planning for the next phase of GoalPost, and how we could partner with Kendraio in the process so that both our projects move forward meaningfully?

Yes please @Jennifer Damashek! That would be helpful. Also @Halima McCarthy just send the question to NLnet and you were all cc'ed. So, we'll see what they say.

OK! After reading "Your first proposal can only be between 5.000 en 50.000 euro. You can follow up with other project proposals, up to 500.000 euro over the lifetime of the programme." And the programme runs from "January 1st 2024 and June 30st 2027". I suggest we should initially apply for a joint project for 50K and split three ways. And then ramp up if we successful. We need to get our feet in the door! What say you? I'll be honest though that having a US participant is not impossible but will be a slight negative in terms of priority. Just to confirm we are all nonprofit and open source? @Jennifer Damashek @RobertD @Oli SB

@Daniel Harris Thank you for that suggestion! Robert and I talked it over with the rest of our team, and we are open applying as a joint project and splitting the award three ways, with the understanding that the funding split and collaborative plan will be shaped based on mutual clarity, alignment, and benefit.

Although Robert and I are based in the U.S., the Seed COC is not a legal entity, and our team spans Canada, Germany, Argentina, and the U.S. We’re actively looking for a fiscal sponsor in Europe, the UK, or Canada. GoalPost is open-source under the Apache-2.0 license, and our stewardship aligns with non-profit, commons-based principles.

I don’t know if you saw that I posted our prioritized tasks for the next phase of development in a different message earlier today.

We also have a demonstration of our current prototype now on our website.

We are excited to collaboratively shaping the grant proposal. It would be great to have some ideas of what specific outcomes would benefit Kendraio and Murmurations, which could be accomplished collaboratively.

@Jennifer Damashek Murmurations is 100% open source. From my perspective I'd like to see GoalPost being able to spit out Murmurations compatible .json files for any Offers/Wants for which the user ticks 'share with the wider network' and for the Index to be updated accordinly with suitable tags etc - and updated with any changes (e.g. if the offer is removed), if we could make that happen with the funds from NLnet (or otherwise) it would be awesome.

Thanks, Oli! From our previous discussions, this seems both reasonable and a pretty easy task. The only thing we discussed as an issue seems to be our privacy concerns about location and contact info, plus the coordination on synchronization when an offer or want is removed. We had planned to use an non-IP based intermediate proxy to isolate CoC requests from the need to share actual IP addresses (e.g., physical locations) with the broader network. It might leverage an open source VPN solution if there’s one that could be morphed. There’s also an open source solution that leverages IETF standard, non-IP based protocols.

Are you envisioning we would need to engage any resources from you or the Open Coop to design, develop or test the implementation? If so, can you estimate the resourcing LOE and cost? If not, this might only involve be developing a meaningful and viable use/test case involving the network, and coordinating network support for participation. We can adjust the proposal pricing and funding split according to team member needs.

All the best,
Robert

Hi @jenniferdamashek4 ! That's great: you are spread out all over the place. From what NLnet say then that should be fine. I do also run an "ethical incubator" called World Peace Now Foundation CIC in the UK – https://www.worldpeacenow.org – that has a nonprofit legal entity in the UK and a bank account and could provide a way to redistribute funds. But I don't think you'll need it from what NLnet says – their funding model seems very flexible on this call.

@RobertD Mururations profiles for O&Ws don't record / include IP addresses - here's an example and don't have to have any location info. They do require a way to contact the person posting (without which they wouldn't make sense!) but, as you can see in the example this can be a contact form.

If you're happy reading and deveoping according to the API you may not need any help from us to make this work - but if you do want help we're here... and it would be great if our time could be covered to support this, but not essential. If you wanted to include some time in the grant proposal for this a couple of days should be sufficient.

Hope this helps!?

Oli

@Oli SB That sounds great. It does sound like we can handle the Murmurations protocol alignment on our sideI. think it would be good to include some budget for assistance/guidance from your team as we think through whether or not a proxy is needed at all, and how we handle the process of matching offers with wants (our gals). What would that 2 day engagement cost so we can include it in our pricing?

@RobertD our day rate can vary massivley depending on who it's for... maybe put £350 in this instance?

the other part of integrating with Murmurations (as well as POSTing) would be to serach the index for relevant O&Ws and then GET the full profile details for these from the profile URLs (and probably cache them in your db) so you can present them to your members and apply the same matching system you already have within GoalPosts.

@Daniel Harris Well, we received the answer, and it seems we are free to collaborate however we wish!

Here is a link to a spreadsheet with our prioritized tasks for the next phase of development. On the first sheet is a prioritized list of features our users said they wanted, in order of importance to our users.

The second sheet is a list of tasks, and Robert indicated which feature each task was related to.

The third and fourth sheets are about working out the budget for the next phase. We have another potential open source collaborator identified there, who we are talking to about working together in the next phase: Cognee.

Please let us know what questions you have.

Hello @Jennifer Damashek @Oli SB @RobertD from tomorrow/Friday I will be offline for a week. I'm back online on the 27th or 28th. I know this isn't very convenient but I going to leave you in the very capable hands of @Halima McCarthy and she'll be posting in here on Kendraio's behalf from now on. I do think there is something we can do here and we should take shot at it. We've been working out our answers to the application in a Google Doc which is currently public. I am happy for us all to work on a joint application there. I think the aim is for us to get feet in the door. It could be that we go for a small grant for a something small that integrates us all in some way. Assuming we get that and impress we can then apply for above 50K EUR in a subsequent call. Cheers!

@Halima McCarthy Thank you for stepping in while Daniel is offline. We’re interested in the potential for collaboration between Kendraio, GoalPost, and Murmurations in the NGI proposal. @Oli SB has been clear about how Murmurations can be integrated, and we’ve agreed on a small, well-defined contribution for this round.

It would be great to create the same clarity together with you for Kendraio’s involvement. Right now, we aren’t sure how Kendraio envisions contributing to the grant deliverables in a way that supports GoalPost’s next phase of development.

We need a conversation (written or live, whichever feels best for you) to co-design this contribution — making sure it’s mutually beneficial and realistic within the budget—before we can start a joint grant application. Would you like to have this conversation within the next few days? We’re happy to share more details about GoalPost’s Phase 2 priorities if that would help orient the conversation.

Hi @Jennifer Damashek! Thank you for your message, I've been catching up and reading through this thread. I first wanted to say I enjoyed reading through the relational invitation that you shared at the very beginning of this thread.

I also had a chance to demo Goal Post and listen through the video explanation of the demo as well, I think you are all developing wonderful things and I'm looking forward to working with you, @RobertD and @Oli SB on this!

Regarding the NGI proposal, I agree! We definitely need to have a conversation about how each of us can contribute. I saw what @Oli SB said about how Murmurations can be integrated. Our initial idea is to integrate all 3 things together in some way, would you prefer a call or continuing the conversation through here?

@Halima McCarthy We would prefer a meeting. Are you available anytime over the weekend? If not (and I completely understand if not!) then when would you be available on Monday or Tuesday?

@Jennifer Damashek I would be available both days of the weekend! Please let me know what times work for you and we can set up a call, thanks!

Just a quick update to share that we’ve submitted our NGI grant proposal for GoalPost, a tool designed to support communities of care through long-term, trust-based collaboration and consent-based data sharing.

The project is being stewarded by the Seed Community of Care and builds on relational practices, solidarity economy values, and open-source design. It also includes planned integration with Murmurations for federated discovery.

@Oli SB we will be sure to let you know when we receive a response!

If you're curious about the proposal or would like to connect around shared work, feel free to message me and I’ll gladly share more.
https://community-of-care.org/goalpost/

@Jennifer Damashek - excellent - thanks - fingers crossed :)

@Oli SB we received notification that the first review process will take up to 12 weeks. 😐

@Oli SB we just received notification that we didn't get the NGI grant.

We are now working with a professional grantwriter and will be setting up a system for continually writing grant proposals. I was encouraged when they told us they are very optimistic we will get funded. It's just a matter of putting in the work and continuing to apply to well matched funders.

We also have been developing relationships with others who share our values and goals, and it's possible much of want we want to accomplish can be fulfilled by working with others.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know the outcome of the NGI grant proposal.

Hi @Jennifer Damashek Thanks for the update - and for taking the time to apply... this kind of news is never great to receive, but hopefully there are useful lessons that can be learned. If you want to collaborate on any future applications just let us know. Thanks again - and all the best, Oli

@Oli SB Quick question - is Open Coop established as a formal cooperative (like a Platform Cooperative for PLANET), and if so, does it have bylaws I can look at? We’re starting a non-profit, educationally-focused platform cooperative to nurture the emergence of relational intelligence, resiliency and resource sharing across government, from local to national. Like the Open Coop, we’ll use Loomio for open dialogue, collaboration and voting on evolving the platform and the community knowledge base. I’m just wondering if you know of a good bylaws model to build upon for the platform cooperative elements. We’re exploring grants as well.

Hi @RobertD we don't... we're more of a do-ocracy than a formal co-op but you might find these links helpful https://communityrule.info/ and https://www.start.coop/bylaws :)

Thanks, Oli! I’ll take a look there.

Robert