Diet: What sort of diet will we adopt, be provided and tolerated?
What sort of diet will we adopt, be provided and tolerated?
Given we are striving at a RBE (autonomous system), livestock has been shown to be environmentally destructive, unsustainable, inefficient, unnecessary and potentially harmful for human consumption, I say the system we'll build can and should only provide a vegan diet, but should anyone want to hunt or raise animals, that should be debated by the living locals.
What about the fish from the aquaponics systems?
Consuming the fish would take a lot more nutrient out of the system. Fish and other aquatic life should be kept to maintain the system. Additionally, it's not really healthy to eat the fish.
Thomas A. Anderson Sat 26 Oct 2013 10:22AM
the amount of "convincing" needs to be quantized too as this can lead to stress and be considered "coercion" which is a fancy way of saying mentally berate and manipulate a person to do what you want. However the groups should seriously look at things that will damage the area we are living in (and make certain we are not just pulling a "dump it where we don't have to see it" maneuver like most corporations do now) to be a guide stone on what is acceptable and what is not acceptable to be allowed to do not just in the food we produce but in every area of our lives. That means that most solar cells used today would be out, as they produce a ton of toxins in the process of making them and then dump them when they get to be to much trouble to deal with, rather than processing them to put them safely back in the environment or back to use in the processes of some other area of production.
Xich Quy Sun 27 Oct 2013 1:28AM
@blainesmith - not to be argumentative, but what if one equates the slaughtering of animals to murder?
My point is that the system cannot support a non plant based diet because it would not be efficient and sustainable. However, if someone wanted to raise chickens, that should be debated by the group because it affects everyone: chickens can carry diseases and whatnot.
Thomas A. Anderson Sun 27 Oct 2013 11:06AM
it sounds like we have a solid split here, and you just divided the group into three groups now thanks to pointing out intolerance, there will be three groups there, one that insists on eating meat as part of their diet, one that does not care and may work with both those that dont want meat, for what ever reason, and those that do, and the third being those that view with hate the people who oppose their views on animal consumption. Using diseases and what not is not a solid argument as so do many other plants, and animals that will show up unbidden thanks to humans having stuff around to attract them, and they are not controllable, so they will be likely to bring in new stuff all the time unlike chickens that are kept in an area that you watch over and protect them from such things as predators and insects, Like it or not, disease is going to come our way, and limiting it can not be done by not having animals around, it can only be done by controlling where we choose to set up homes, like using arid areas so that animals will be limited severely due to there not being enough water to support them in your area, as they do not know how to extract water from air and such using things like evaporation control like water cones.
Thomas A. Anderson Sun 27 Oct 2013 11:10AM
this brings up the point of having solid rules that are embedded in a questionair that each person must answer to gain acceptance into a group. not to be exclusive but to ensure they are a good fit for the group, both for the groups protection and their own protection. so that they can avoid being paired with people that will naturally cause lots of stress and arguing, over things that could lead to ill feelings and possibly violence.
Blaine Smith Sun 27 Oct 2013 10:01PM
If i'm honest I too think it is like murder especially with the cruel treatment of animals all over the world, My eyes were opened by a documentary called Earthlings. It's one of those things you don't need or want to watch twice. Anyway, I wasn't saying that for me, as I am seriously contemplating becoming vegetarian, It was more for the people would do like the taste of meat and don't killing them the way you do. It is obviously something that needs to be over come because vegetarianism is both the logical and ethical life style to take for all the reasons mentioned and more, but there are people who are not logical in their decision making and their ethics are questionable. All they care about is what it tastes like, it's not a great reason, but it's all they need to by pass their conscience. But the best way the solve that isn't violence or ignoring them, it is informing them. If they want to be part of the community they need to know how the others feel about things and why. That video I mentioned is a good way to do that.
Xich Quy Mon 28 Oct 2013 5:15AM
@thomasaanderson - we can ensure higher safe guard against diseases by growing our food in a controlled, soilless and automated environment.
The logistics of implementing an automated system that raises livestock is a lot more complicated, but not impossible. However, it might still be highly inefficient, unnecessary and unhealthy for human consumption. Looking ahead, if we were one day able to produce lab meat that is nutritious, healthy, safe, sustainable, efficient and environmentally friendly with no sentient being involved, then I'd be the first person to line up for that.
Given we are 'working' towards automation and abundance, we will not be able to provide chicken and steak dinners for a long while.
I am certain by simply presenting people with the facts people will come to accept them. People need to know that the majority of them have been conditioned to like certain things and think in certain ways. 'We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." - Albert Einstein
@blainesmith - the first time I saw Earthlings, I wasn't fazed by its grittiness as I was already aware of the atrocities and was very desensitized. At that time, I was cooking only vegan meals, but I was still an omnivore whenever I was eating out. I remained so for a while because I liked the taste and I was ignorant, lazy, deluded, disenchanted and callus.
When I watched it again as a vegan, I saw it in a completely different light. It was almost too much at certain points. I was quite surprised by my overwhelmingly more empathic reaction to the suffering beings in the programs.
I don't feel like I'm missing out on awesome tasty foods because there are a lot of awesome tasty vegan foods out there. I am, however, missing out on so many exotic fruits right now ಠ_ಠ Additionally and more importantly, my choice of food for the sake of taste should not outweigh the will of the animal to live.
Thomas A. Anderson Mon 28 Oct 2013 11:35PM
it should be noted though that plants die to be eaten too, even fruit cells are still alive in the fruit, the difference here is that the fruit is ready to go or close to ready, so we should treat animals the same way. killing them only when they are suffering from old age, Milk is something I am against simply because it was never meant to be consumed by any animal other than the offspring animal it came from, animals can serve many other purposes until they are dying or dead from old age like cows being used to help move things, which if you are bonded to these animals they do it because they want to, rather than because you are forcing them to, Look up how cows have best friends and get very depressed when one of them dies or is seperated from them, this same bond can happen between them and a human that is empathic, Chickens can turn tons of insects into protein to be eaten with out killing them, remember they lay eggs and if they are not fertilized then the egg is essentially a protein fruit :) forcing them to die I think is totally un needed since they also turn insects and seeds into fertilizer so being around them constantly means that we are gathering eggs before they go bad, collecting fertilizer (both selfish purposes) and caring for their health and well being (selfless acts) every day, so when they show signs of being close to death, then would be the time to take their meat, which I need to dig it up but there are proteins and other nutrients that humans can not make that animals do, and we can not get from any diet unless we can get plants from all over the earth, and these are leached from the body if you take the meat from a young animal or bird, by other nutrients they posses but this is not the case with old nearly dead (by old age and natural causes) animals and chickens. It may sound barbaric but it makes a lot more sense when you realize that humans are at our core are not really omnivores or carnivores or herbivores but are scavengers. it is easy too to mistake a scavenger for an omnivore since they can both eat nearly anything, but facts are facts.
Thomas A. Anderson Mon 28 Oct 2013 11:42PM
also anyone who claims they need to kill so many to get the nutrients they need are full of it, and you can see the type of people how they over indulge by how fat and soft they are, the amount of nutrients needed from animals if we use the above practice would drop dramatically to like a couple servings of meat every month, and I am sure there are ways it can be made untasty to keep people from craving it due to taste, (though when I am busy working on things I am the sort I forget to even eat until my stomach is nearly eating it self :) )
Blaine Smith · Sat 26 Oct 2013 4:56AM
I understand your concern, but I think what people eat should be up to the individual, not dictated by others. If someone wants to uses their home to raise chickens then I see no reason I should stop them. That's not to say you can't try to convince them other wise, but it should ultimately be up to them. That's just my point of view.