Appeal to State Council : Proposal that the Pirate Party contributes
HgO
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Français, English below
Ahoy !
Lors du dernier Pirate Lab, j'ai demandé si le Parti Pirate serait d'accord de participer financièrement au recours au Conseil d'État que j'ai déposé en octobre dernier. À l'époque, un article avait été publié sur le site du parti, expliquant en détails ma démarche (et celle de l'équipage du Brabant wallon). Je vous invite à le lire pour avoir tous les détails de l'affaire.
En bref, le recours concerne l'accès aux projets de délibération du conseil communal de Braine-l'Alleud. Un projet de délibération est une sorte de pré-PV, avec le détail de chacun des points inscrits à l'ordre du jour. Lorsque les citoyens ont accès à ces documents, ils ont la possibilité de mieux comprendre ce qui est décidé, de débattre entre-eux, et même d'organiser des assemblées citoyennes (c'est ce qui se passe à Louvain-la-Neuve par exemple).
Nous le disions dans l'article : le problème est qu'un recours au Conseil d'État est une solution lente et coûteuse, et n'est pas à la portée de tout le monde. Pour le moment, ce sont mes proches et moi qui payons les frais de dossier (220€) et les frais d'avocat (2000€ jusqu'à présent). Si j'obtiens gain de cause, la commune devra me rembourser 700€. Néanmoins, si je perds ce sera à moi de payer les 700€.
La proposition est la suivante : Le Parti Pirate contribue financièrement au recours déposé au Conseil d'État, à hauteur de 700€, quelque soit l'issue du recours.
Je ne suis pas pressé, nous avons vraiment le temps pour en discuter. Un recours dure en général plusieurs années. Je propose donc que chaque équipage discute de cette proposition et communique sa décision ici.
On peut fonctionner au consentement : si vous ou votre équipage avez une objection forte (et argumentée !) contre cette proposition, alors elle ne passera pas en l'état et on en rediscutera.
Je serai présent au Pirate Lab du 23 février qui aura lieu à Malines, on pourra donc en discuter là-bas pour ceux qui veulent.
English
Ahoy !
Last Pirate Lab, I asked if the Pirate Party would agree to contribute to the appeal I made in October to the State Council. At that time, we published an article on the website (in French) were we explained why I (and the Crew BW) did this. You can read that article to have more information on this action.
In short, the appeal concerns the right to access the "projets de délibération" (deliberation projects) of the city council of Braine-l'Alleud (Eigenbrakel). A deliberation projet is a kind of pre-report, with all the details for each point on the agenda. When citizens have those documents, they can better understand what is decided, they can debate, or even organize citizen assemblies (that's what is happening in Louvain-la-Neuve for instance).
As we said in the article : the issue is that an appeal to the State Council is slow and cost a lot of money, and thus not everyone can afford this. Currently, my relatives and myself are paying the administrative fees (220€) and the lawyer (2000€ until now). If I win, the city will have to refund me 700€. However, if I lose, then I'll have to refund them 700€.
The proposal is the following : The Pirate Party contributes with 700€ to the appeal to the State Council, regardless of the outcome of this appeal
I'm not in a hurry, we have plenty of time to debate about this. In general, an appeal can last a couple of years. So, I propose that each crew discuss this proposal and tell here what is their decision.
We can work with consent : if you or your crew have a strong objection (with argumentation !), then the proposal is rejected as is, and we will have to debate about this.
I'll be at the Pirate Lab on 23rd february, in Mechelen, so we could talk about the proposal for those who want.
Marc Buckens Wed 29 May 2019 3:02PM
We should push the transparency through all the municipalities. Please find attached some proposals (based on what is done in some municipalities) that we have proposed (and has been refused to Genappe) You can ask a motion (if you have a representative or "interpellation" as citizen). Do you know the site www.transparencia.be where you can ask anything and the municiaplity has one month to reply. I use it (ie. to get the financial report of Belfius which very interesting)
Marc Buckens Wed 29 May 2019 3:04PM
A proposal of rating of municipalities transparency and participation actions. We should find one pirate to push the question to each municipality and make a map of the best (and worst ones) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sp1AG4FvRb4Yv9Ok3pPs5GMteemoUIgn
Renaud Van Eeckhout Wed 29 May 2019 3:23PM
Do you know the site www.transparencia.be where you can ask anything and the municiaplity has one month to reply
Yes, about 10-20% of the requests made on transparencia.be are made by pirates actually.
We should push the transparency through all the municipalities.
Yes we "should", we also should push legislative changes at the regional level, etc (and there have been changes there in the last weeks, giving more power to CADA)
But this thread is not about that, it's about a concrete proposal detailed in the first message. For transparency in general, I suggest this thread
HgO Wed 29 May 2019 4:22PM
@marcbuckens You surely knows @patrickinstalle, who is one of the co-funder of Transparencia. He is helping some local representatives (in the opposition, mostly in the Brabant wallon) to ask for more transparency from their city.
We should push the transparency through all the municipalities.
That's already what we are trying to do since several years, but we are not many. For instance, I'm pushing for transparency in my city (Braine-l'Alleud) as you can see in the thread we are right now, and also with the requests I made through Transparencia.
@patrickinstalle made a website to publish document that should be public : https://conseil-citoyen.be
You can also have a look on the wiki (although I'm not sure the information is fully up-to-date) : https://wiki.pirateparty.be/Transparency
A proposal of rating of municipalities transparency and participation actions
That was the aim of this project : https://wiki.pirateparty.be/Transparency/WikiCitoyen (but as I said : not enough people, not enough time) And I remember that Transperancia helped journalists to make a "transparency barometer", first in Brussels then in Wallonia.
Anyways, regarding the proposal to contribute to this action : we will talk about this at the 1st June's Pirate Lab, and hopefully make a decision there. So far, there wasn't any objection, so if someone has something against this proposal, they should talk now ^
Ilja Sat 1 Jun 2019 2:45PM
ahum I think we should have articles about it. This is good for
- Transparancy (both about ppbe as well as what's happening in Belgium)
- Marketing
HgO Sun 9 Jun 2019 12:25PM
Puisqu'il n'y a eu aucune objection à cette proposition (au contraire !), nous avons décidé lors du Pirate Lab de mai que le Parti Pirate contribue financièrement, à hauteur de 700€, pour ce recours.
Petit chronologie :
* En janvier j'ai reçu l'argumentaire de la commune qui expliquait sa vision des choses et ses raisons du refus. Il y avait beaucoup d'attaques ad-hominem, ce qui ne m'étonne pas venant de mon bourgmestre…
* En mars, mon avocat a rédigé une contre-argumentation (une réplique aux arguments de la commune)
* Toujours en mars, mon avocat m'a envoyé sa première facture (4035€)
* Je n'ai plus de nouvelles du dossier depuis, mais si j'en crois cette page (requête en annulation), la prochaine étape sera le rapport de l'auditorat.
Une des conditions que l'on a posée lors du Lab était de rédiger un article quel que soit le verdict. Si jamais il y a une audience (ce n'est pas encore sûr à ce stade de la procédure) on pourra également faire de la pub et rédiger un article.
Il faut savoir que depuis que j'ai fait mon recours, la législation a changé : désormais, la CADA (Commission d'Accès aux Documents Administratifs) a un pouvoir décisionnel. Cela signifie qu'il ne sera plus nécessaire d'aller au Conseil d'État. Dans mon cas, la CADA m'avait donné raison, donc avec cette nouvelle loi, la commune aurait été obligée de me transmettre les documents. Je propose de faire un article à ce sujet dans les prochaines semaines, lorsque la nouvelle loi sera entré en vigueur.
As nobody made an objection to this proposal, we decided at the Pirate Lab of May to contribute with 700€ for the appeal to the State Council.
A short history :
* In January, I received the city's argument explaining its view and its reasons for the refusal. There were many ad-hominem attacks, which does not surprise me coming from my mayor…
* In March, my lawyer wrote a counter-argument (a reply to the city's argument)
* Still in March, my lawyer sent me his first invoice (4035€)
* I don't have any news since then, but according to this page (action for annulment), the next step would be the auditor's report.
A condition that we set at the Lab was to write an article regardless of the outcome of this action. If there is a hearing (it's not yet sure at this stage of the procedure), we could also write some article.
Note that since I made this appeal, the law changed : the CADA (Commission for Access to Administrative Documents) has now a decision power. This means that it won't be necessary to go to the State Council anymore. In my case, the CADA ruled in my favour, so with this new law the city would have been forced to send me the documents. I propose to write an article in the next weeks, when the new law takes effects.
Lander Meeusen Thu 13 Jun 2019 11:00AM
Sounds like a win. There will be no more legal expenses then? The 700€ will be for previous lawyer expenses?
HgO Wed 26 Jun 2019 6:50PM
Yes indeed! ;)
Ilja · Thu 7 Mar 2019 4:48PM
No objections from me either btw. On the contrary, I think this is something we should do.