Wed 26 Feb 2020 10:57AM

Imposing paid plans on pre-existing Loomio.org groups

DS Danyl Strype Public Seen by 122

I recently noticed that some groups that were set up on Loomio.org when it was a pay-what-you-can operation have had their ability to create new threads removed, until they sign up for a paid plan. This is not cool. It's the way VC-funded startups behave, not social enterprises run as workers coops. I've raised the issue on the Loomio Community group, asking the Loomio team to restore the functionality of these legacy groups:


I'd appreciate your thoughts, in this thread, or there.


Bob Haugen Wed 26 Feb 2020 12:43PM

Mastodon and SSB are starting to have polls. We're working on one and planning another decentralized social-economic network and both will have proposals and polls plus discussions.

So that is what will happen. The more casual and unfunded groups will go elsewhere, and the more professional and funded groups will stay here.

I assume the Loomio crew understands and is ok with that. Some of them watched and maybe even helped with SSB polls.


Josef Davies-Coates Thu 27 Feb 2020 8:50AM

Given voluntary and community groups can continue to pay just $10/year (well $1/ year per user but minimum $10/year) I personally don't see this as a huge issue.


martin ➬ Thu 27 Feb 2020 9:52PM

Good point, @Josef Davies-Coates. We're 200 members in this group/community, so we're looking at $200/year of funds that will directly sustain Loomio's existence. I'm herewith putting my hand up to contribute $25/year. Also happy to coordinate this on e.g. opencollective.org.

Anyone else? $175 to go…

Edit: just found https://www.loomio.org/d/echHNIyP/gold-account-sponsorship, probably best to continue there?

Full disclosure of interest: I've lent money to Loomio, and I am serving on the board of directors. I'm in this group not as a representative of Loomio though, and I don't speak for the company. I've been a member of the open-source scene for 27 years (and a Debian developer for 23 of those). Now I build teams around open standards and protocols. I have not yet found an answer to the question of how users can help pay rent and food for those who make it all happen, and as much as I love to think back on twenties, families don't operate just off love, idealism, water and air, unfortunately.


Lynn Foster Thu 27 Feb 2020 10:09PM

This group has been paying loomio, since we can and we want to support open source projects we use. And I think wanted the sub-group feature? Anyhow, people have been contributing, and your $25 of course would be welcome, although I think we are paid up atm. Here is the thread: https://www.loomio.org/d/echHNIyP/gold-account-sponsorship?p=1


Lynn Foster Thu 27 Feb 2020 1:01PM

I agree with @Strypey on this one, grandfathering older groups in would be the least one could expect. All those older groups helped loomio grow to where it can charge more. Also noting that some groups (like OAE, although we pay voluntarily) are large (hundreds?) and loose, with many people participating hardly ever, but perhaps wanting to follow along. So loomio has discouraged the ability to work with broad network effects here, which contribute to building the "movement" in addition to having the ability to coordinate smaller more focused groups. Disappointing direction, I will stop recommending loomio.


martin ➬ Thu 27 Feb 2020 9:20PM

Hey @Lynn Foster, could you please elaborate on what you'd expect "grandfathering older groups" would entail beyond specifically inviting them to reach out to the team, so that a solution may be found for the individual case, when $10/year is still too much?


Lynn Foster Thu 27 Feb 2020 10:03PM

Hi @martin ➬ , for 'grandfathering older groups', I meant letting the groups who have had the free community deal to just keep it. Maintain the good will, save the loomio team time negotiating.


Danyl Strype Mon 2 Mar 2020 1:32AM

Beautifully put Lynn. See my comment today in the Loomio Community thread laying out the case for this in more detail.


Jon Richter Wed 11 Mar 2020 12:19AM

We're ~ 230 🎉



Oli SB Thu 12 Mar 2020 10:28AM

but the thing is, like most "communities" only ~5% of people contribute - the rest lurk or have moved on... and what use is that? Doesn't this imply we should rethink our strategies for collaboration in some way...?

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