Shall we create a crowd funding campaign for a Loomio app?

Just to be clear,

I'm trying to highlight a feature of Loomio, that will tell you if someone has seen a notification email, because we can track if they're opened with fairly good accuracy.

Yeah, that was clear, but I just wasn't sure how doing so with "fairly good accuracy" works at all, due to the constraints I mentioned, without the user explicitly enabling privacy-compromising features like image autoload (for "pixel tracking", which is the only mechanism you might use that I can think of).

It sounds like you didn't know either, so I just did some research on pixel tracking. Looks like a few years ago Google changed Gmail to show images by default, which would move the majority of users (since gmail is the most popular client, and most people don't change its settings) back into the "passively trackable" category. So I guess that's the explanation.

Email notifications were considered a nuisance by many members.

+1 on that. Receiving and replying to posts by email is helpful for those of us who came of age during the email list era, and know how to user folders and filters effectively in our email clients. For most people, they just get lost in the firehose.

One problem with allowing read receipts is that spammers can use them to confirm that addresses they firehose with spam are in use. Jabber mitigates spam by having clients ask users if they want to interact with Address X. That connection request can contain spam content, but you can then block that user with one click. In some clients, like Conversations, you can block the whole domain they're spamming from. Because of this, the Jabber network can and does use read receipts a lot more than they tend to be used in email.

Keen as. I was actually just thinking of the need for smartphone apps just over the last couple days too. It would probably influence my team peers to more seriously consider it as a good alternative and then transition off watsapp and Facebook to use Loomio to organise communications.

@jameskiesel could Loomio send notifications to Facebook?

Thanks for starting this conversation @lukeflegg! This has been on my mind a lot recently too, spurred by reading about strategies for scaling and distribution of other similarly-positioned digital tools. I agree with @jameskiesel that practical constraints mean it would be a mistake for us to rush into app development within the next few months (outside of the dream scenario of a committed talented person(s) appearing and offering to jump into it).

At the same time, in the longer term I'm convinced that releasing Loomio in mobile app form is totally critical to scaling the positive impact it can have in the world. No matter how good our browser-based experience, if we don't push mobile app distribution, Loomio will only ever serve a particular demographic - i.e. people who are privileged enough to afford laptops/desktops. For so many people, particularly folk living in developing countries and people below the age of 20, the primary mode of accessing the internet is through buttons on the home screen of a mobile device. And this is only increasing. For me it's a question of timing and logistics, and I'm very keen to jump into research mode, and think carefully about whether we can fit this into our 12-month roadmap. I think there are a bunch of different ways we could go about this, so getting good information and talking to other folk who have been here before seems like the most valuable thing we can do right now.

I really appreciate this prompt, and @williamasiata and @damonmeledones 's feedback is invaluable. Thanks!

Is there research we can read about use of mobile apps versus web apps in developing countries?

I'm a total noob at all things software development in general but couldn't you just create API capability for each of group management functions, personal profile, thread editing, commenting, proposals and voting. Then bootstrap it all into a single phone app.

I found this article about Indian company Flipkart published earlier this month in the New York times a interesting perspective on the value of native apps in developing countries.

Native apps use more data and so can be less convenient in areas with lower connectivity.

I'd be interested in exploring how Loomio can also gain some of the benefits - push notifications etc - without the costs of building a mobile app.